I see everybody's points regarding whether you should or shouldn't join a group like the Quail Coalition. That isn't for me to decide. It's my job to make sure everyone's thoughts and questions receive equal consideration.

I just got in touch with Dr Dale Rollins, director of the Rolling Plains Quail Research Center ( he was in the middle of a prescribed burn so we are going to talk tomorrow). Here is the link to the organization: http://www.quailresearch.org/index.htm

What are your legit questions as to why you should donate money to groups like the Quail Coalition (who in turn give to the Research Center)? I thought maybe ya'll would like to know first hand if or how it benefits you in any way. I have questions for the man- if you have one you want me to ask please let me know.

I am sure that he can also help ellaborate on what land owners should do to improve their habitat to ensure quail survival. I am glad that so many of us are concerned with the dismal quail populations- but we need more and more people to become educated/concerned with the issue.

Excellent brother.

When you wrote prescribed burn, I thought of this...
http://www.parislanding.com/quail_habitat_111506.htm

Whats the best way to get landowners involved and to show them the benefit

There is nothing I would rather do than hunt ducks in the morning and then turn the dogs loose on some quail again. But here are some of my issues

1) I have a problelm with things being done on a very big doners ranch. I have seen where other groups have done this in the name of conservation, and the only one who benefits is the land owner. Not the due paying members.


2) Why cant some of the research thats not done at rolling plains be done on the WMA's and other state owned land? To get more people involved there needs to more access to quail hunting.

3) Since the bird is not migratory and belongs to the state of Texas, why is the state not more involved. For quail # numbers to rise its going to take more than just QC. Who do they have in Austin?

4) And I hate to say this because a hunting license is high enough, but maybe a stamp specifically for quail hunting ( not just upland gamebirds ) with all proceeds going to quail habitat.

Good stuff Jeff. I will try to find out. I like the idea of #4 a lot, it would suck. But I think all quail hunters would agree to fork over an extra 10 bucks if they knew that money was being put to good use regarding our Texas quail. I know I would pay it- but I would want to make sure I knew where it was going first. As I am sure you would to.

More than enough money is already being collected...where does it go??

Where are the statistics showing the contributions of U.S. hunters to wildlife... $$ spent on licenses and permits; taxes on hunting equipment, such as firearms are in the billions; federal duck stamps add millions and conservation organizations donate millions...

First, IMHO, Dale Rollins is doing a fabulous job and with the help of some well off doaners from Park City QU/QC among others has a really good thing going at the Rolling Plains Quail Research Ranch. I fully intend on joining once they get around to redoing the membership from the old QU. I urge everyone to support Dr Rollins and the excellent reseach he and his team are doing.

Second, as I think some one else said, first we need to save the quail hunter. With a robust number of quail hunters and good research, the bob white will be saved. Just a relatively few wealthy individuals are doing a great job of supporting Dr Rollins and I salute them for it. BUT, to get enough support and money to really improve Texas quail populations on a landscape level will take the positive involvement of hundreds of thousands of quail hunters. The wealthy few can always have their ranches well enough managed so that particular ranch has good quail numbers but that will not solve the STATE WIDE problem with bob white quail numbers.
To actually get enough people to feel they have a stake in the health of the Texas quails, there needs to be enough affordable hunting FOR quail. I maintain that there is NOT enough affordable hunting for quail in Texas because instead of concentrating on the quail HUNTER TPWD concentrates on the landowner.

So first save the quail hunter by ensuring there really are a good number of public hunting opportunities. Not the pathetic few that currently exist.
Third, if the quail hunter is saved and his number is increased, HE will ensure that state wide quail problems are addressed.

And by the way, just WHAT does TPWD do with the $7 dollar upland hunting stamp revenue it CURRENTLY gets ????

My intention is to express my opinion as plainly as I am capable I have no desire to be disagreeable. I believe the real problem is that TPW has not done it's job when it comes to "managing" wild quail in the state of Texas. I believe there is a lack of accountability and transparency at all levels of TPW.

I agree with Jeff on all four of his points but respectfully ask him to give Quail Coalition and similar conservation groups a chance to gain some momentum and develop the political clout necessary to either A) hold TPW responsible for doing the work our hunting license/fee dollars are supposedly paying for or if that fails, B) find/create a private organization to do that work. If TPW is going to take our money upfront they should be ready and willing to honestly account for how it is spent and where it goes. If someone gets caught hunting or fishing without the proper license they are in trouble, why should not that be a two way street? IF TPW takes our money and fails to do their job they should be in trouble shouldn't they?

Where Jeff and I seem to part company is that I believe, in most cases, the government is the problem not the solution. Where wild quail are concerned TPW has a long way to go before they can honestly say they are part of the solution. My personal opinion is TPW is not even in the game yet. The recovery of the turkey and waterfowl populations in the last 70 years is the reason we have Federal and state wildlife agencies... it's their job to manage wildlife. They don't deserve a medal and ticker-tape parade for doing their job. I get a paycheck for doing my job if I don't do my job I won't get a paycheck I don't see any reason TPW should be any different.

Please permit me to interject some of my concerns as a land owner and as someone concerned with all types of conservation. As a lot of you probably have learned, quail hunting is probably at an all time low and we know most of the answers. Until the weather changes to favorable conditions and there is more available water to nuture the natural grasses, we are still saddled with an uphill climb in gaining better quail populations.

Having said this I would like to comment on the refurbishing of public lands with wildlife or the habitat. Somehow we have to get the "wild quail" back into the picture. Five years ago we lost our habitat in and around Coleman. We've yet to regain what we had. We're making a little headway this season with, praise the Lord, more water in the beginning of the year than we had last year.

Where the money goes for or from all the "quail" clubs and so forth is for the most part unseen by land owners like myself. My question is, where do you want the money to go? I'm certainly not bebefiting from any monies from any quail organization. Our outfitter used to get up ample coveys and quail hunting was our bread and butter for many years. Now....hardly worth hunting if at all. So, what I'm getting at is, unless someone comes to us that have hunting properties we are on our own recogniscense when it comes to populating or restoring quail hunting on private land.

Personally IMHO, I don't think the quail population can survive on public land!! Why? Because, and this may be a topic for discussion, unles hunters know how to manage bird populations I think they would be over hunted on public land. How are you going to govern the amount of birds taken out of a covey in a months time. On public land one does not know how often that particular covey has been busted or how many singles were taken. IMO, quail hunting should be kept to the general hunting groups that want to pay to hunt. Is it expensive? I would have to say yes. But, how else can you manage your quail except under the care of a good outfitter that allows only so many birds taken at one time and also through the season?

Personally IMHO, I don't think the quail population can survive on public land!! Why? Because, and this may be a topic for discussion, unles hunters know how to manage bird populations I think they would be over hunted on public land. How are you going to govern the amount of birds taken out of a covey in a months time. On public land one does not know how often that particular covey has been busted or how many singles were taken. IMO, quail hunting should be kept to the general hunting groups that want to pay to hunt. Is it expensive? I would have to say yes. But, how else can you manage your quail except under the care of a good outfitter that allows only so many birds taken at one time and also through the season? [/quote]

Quail are not going to thrive on public land if all you are talking about are the pathetic 2 current WMAs that really have bobs--Chapparal and Matador. Given sufficient public land they can and will thrive. Doesn't matter if the land is leased private land or state land.
I have hunted public land (state and federal as well as leased private land) in Kansas, Montana, North Dakota and Oklahoma. I promise you there are more pheasants, sharptails, huns, sage grouse and yes bob whites than you can imagine there. There is a lot of public land there as well as in New Mexico and Arizona, where there is really good hunting for Blues, Gambels and Mearns quail.
The hunting pressure on, for example, the North Dakota public lands is huge. Pick ups and dog trailers from half the US can be seen there. Yet every year (as long as the weather is good and the CRP remains) the hunting is excellent. The state of North Dakota, by the way, with a population of about 750k,has about 1 million cares of state leased land for public hunting and some of it is very good indeed.
IF TPWD would just get off their dead a$$ and so something we could see hunting like that here. Texas is, as we all know, really large. In driving back and forth to Pecos last weekend I passed through MILLIONS of acres of land where, for the most part, quail grow up and die and never see a human or hear a shotgun shot.
You cannot tell me we could not have a good public hunting program if TPWD wanted one.

Quail are not going to thrive on public land if all you are talking about are the pathetic 2 current WMAs that really have bobs--Chapparal and Matador. Given sufficient public land they can and will thrive. Doesn't matter if the land is leased private land or state land.
I have hunted public land (state and federal as well as leased private land) in Kansas, Montana, North Dakota and Oklahoma. I promise you there are more pheasants, sharptails, huns, sage grouse and yes bob whites than you can imagine there. There is a lot of public land there as well as in New Mexico and Arizona, where there is really good hunting for Blues, Gambels and Mearns quail.
The hunting pressure on, for example, the North Dakota public lands is huge. Pick ups and dog trailers from half the US can be seen there. Yet every year (as long as the weather is good and the CRP remains) the hunting is excellent. The state of North Dakota, by the way, with a population of about 750k,has about 1 million cares of state leased land for public hunting and some of it is very good indeed.
IF TPWD would just get off their dead a$$ and so something we could see hunting like that here. Texas is, as we all know, really large. In driving back and forth to Pecos last weekend I passed through MILLIONS of acres of land where, for the most part, quail grow up and die and never see a human or hear a shotgun shot.
You cannot tell me we could not have a good public hunting program if TPWD wanted one. [/quote]


I agree, but although Texas is a bastion for quail, it is first and foremost dedicated to the whitetail deer, as far as TPW is concerned. To wait for ANY government agency to get involved, as the old saying goes, will be a day late and a dollar short.

That is why it is imperative for private parties to do what they must to insure the future of this particular bird.

I can only speak for myself. Agree or disagree, all of your suggestions seem like a sincere effort to help the cause. That is appreciated.

I was looking back thru some old hunting logs last wk. and I came across one from a hunt in poolville. I don't know where that is in relation to your place, but the log was dated jan 5, 1987. We had pushed up 9 covies from 3pm to dark and killed 28 birds. One note I had made in the log was all of these covies had feed out of large infestations of greenbriar and what good escape cover it made for the birds. Don't know if you have any of that on your place, but if you ever are able to reintroduce birds to your property the quail really use that stuff.

I Totally agree with you, that on public quail would take a beating. We all no the government state or fed can sure eff things up!!
You all are as passionate about quail as I am ducks and land owners rights.

But the point I am trying to drive home is you need to get the public involved... More hunters means more $$ for QC.
There are lots of people that I know would love to hunt quail, but they dont have the money for a quail lease, but would sure pony up for a QC membership! I see it with guys who hunt duck. They cant afford a lease, so they hunt public. But you know what they all have DU and Delta stickers on their vehicle.
Each year they say the number of hunters decline, well I bet quail hunter numbers are droping faster than quail numbers!

All im saying is just think about public wether its building habitat or just turning em loose like trout every season, at least some one will take someone new hunting, and hopefully they will take to the sport with a passion and become the next Leaders of QC, and the next generation of quail hunters

Jeff, thanks for the support. I really and truthfully don't know the answer other than to keep on doing what we have been doing in the past. As I mentioned quail hunting was at the forefront on our place five years ago. We removed all the cattle, which were a large number, and let the pastures rest for four years. This was also done in parallel with the drought. Now, last year we leased out our grazing rights so as to get the natural grasses back in order to support quail populations. Which brings about a different angle to quail and their habitat.

I maintain through teachings and experience that you have to have some grazing in order to have adequet quail populations. That is.... if you have everything else like water, three of the five natural seeds from grasses and a good dose of prickly pear!! Does that sound insane?? Actually its a great combination to a habitat and quail and a lot of other different kind of wildlife. Jeff, this also includes ducks.

Quailguy, sorry but this ain't nowhere else but Texas my friend. Don't take this personally but you have to have something to start with before you can crow about ALL the feathered wildlife in a particular area. Most of the species or some of them are not indigenous to Texas. And if they were they would be in the same shape as the quail are now. We as ranchers and land owners have still got to rely on moisture and then we can help the habitat somewhat.

Just for instance!!! I had a 60 acre field plowed, fertilized. and sewen with sunflowers two years ago. Sun flowers are pretty hearty and can survive when nothing else can but sometimes it takes two years for them to come up!! Guess what?? They came up but only about 6-8 inches!! Why?? No water. So, we're goint to try something else. Just sayin', we gotta keep on keepin' on. MY2cents

I think I remember reading somewhere where Ducks Unlimited buys land in North Dakota and other places where ducks nest so that there is a place where the birds can reproduce, thereby producing more ducks throughout the flyways during hunting season. Seems like an effective strategy.

All quail groups seem to do is "studies." They have been studying quail since the 40's with no result. I'm sure there is some room for academia but quail hunting is about land.

Why can the quail groups take their donated money and buy land and set it aside,lease it to the state for public access, or just lease it to the highest bidder. (Timber company land is a good example of private land that are accessed by the public for recreation.) I would think that year after year of increasing land holdings would eventually yield something worthwhile. At least it would protect it from development and help with 'fragmentation.' I'd gladly give my money to that kind of effort...rather than fund another study on fire ants...

Also, you can absolutely have good bird hunting on public land...you just need a lot of land.

Kansas has alot of WMA land, some not worth hunting and some very good. The good quail land get raped the opening week and is not much good after. It's not contiguous so solves no fragmentation problems. Most is overgrazed and rented to the state for the buck or two an acre it brings. Don't think thats the answer. Somehow working with farmers and ranchers statewide is the answer.