since I'm new here...it would be an interesting poll to find out who participates in this forum and what kind of slant it has...

- land-owners over 1000 acres
- land owners under 1000 acres
- lease sellers/brokers
- professional guides
- wealthy hunters with no bird dog
- corporate leases / memberships / members may hunt / may not
- wealthy bird dog owners / hunters
- upper income bird dog owners / hunters
- bird dog owners / hunters that make under 100K
- bird hunters with no dog
- bird dog breeders
- bird dog trainers
- bird dog rescue
- retired guys that are passionate about bird hunting

I hunt 2 ranches in kent county quail numbers are way down and neither ranch is remotely overgrazed.

WOW! This one blew up quick!

So, let me get this straight...

Someone registered on THF just to tell all the Texas landowners he isn't spending his money on Texas leases anymore??? Did I miss something? The guy does less than a dozen posts, right? I think that would be like me going to any random lanowner and telling him "I have never hunted you land and I won't be back." Didn't Larry the Cable Guy say something about wiping before ya poop???

He's pretty active on the PDJ website. He posted this same thread over there. I suggested that he post it over here. I'm somewhat new on here myself, and I've posted several times about my $4,500 quail.

The sad truth is that we're going from a sellers market to no market at all. There was not a gradual decline in quail numbers. They crashed. There was too much grass on the $4,500 per quail lease.

Some times people lurk and never post until they're angry about something.

I know I'd be angry about $4500 quail!

I have never even quail hunted once, but what is the answer?

so...let me get this straight...someone on this board a long time (and a Larry the Cableguy Fan) owns the discussion?
If a new guy wants to get on here and discuss his actual experience and how he feels about it...he is not welcome...RIGHT??

I think the answer is to make sure you know what you are getting before you sign a lease. Do your due diligence, see if there are birds, ask about cattle, grazing, etc., and put some sort of clause in the contract to protect yourself from $4500 quail. I understand both sides of this story. People fly down to one ranch I hunt in South Texas and pay over $1,000 a DAY to hunt wild quail birds. To me, that is nuts. But, these guys love it, and to each their own.

anyone?

That *would* be interesting. You could create a poll.

[Quote]The sad truth is that we're going from a sellers market to no market at all. There was not a gradual decline in quail numbers. They crashed. There was too much grass on the $4,500 per quail lease.
[quote]

This is partly what has happened on a lot of hunting ranches. Too much grass can be a cause of sudden drops in quail population. Why? Number one, quail cannot manuever in tall grasses and the chicks can't escape predators. You should have some cattle to have a decent quail crop. This may come as a suprise to some but it is a proven fact that cattle grazing can enhance quail populations.

Are some ranches over grazed?? Surley. There are a lot of ways to tell wheather the area you are hunting in has a good track record of quail. As previously suggested, ask the rancher. Also go have coffee at the local cafe and ask questions. Talk to an outfitter, most of any repudation won't lie to you because they are in the business to sell hunts and their bread and butter is return customers.

Quitting for some odd reason is not the answer and drawing your own conclusions about a given place is only going to serve as a mistake most of the time. You have to get in the back yard with the people who live there day in and day out.

If anyone on here is a rancher/farmer, and hes got any kind of game on his place, hes probably selling hunting. Cattle/farming are secondary livings. Oil and gas is not what it used to be but praise the Lord we still have hunting.

I day lease. I don't and won't pay that kind of money for a lease, but as long as there are people willing to pay...supply and demand.

A rancher is a grass farmer. The cows and game are the byproduct of the grass. When a rancher leases the ground and then grazes it to the dirt he is not selling you a place to hunt, just a place to run your dogs. With the extended drought we just went through and the wide spread over grazing it will be a long time before the quail come back. The rancher wouldn't think of letting a herd of cows starve to death and then replacing them to meet the fate, but they will leave thier cows in one pasture untill all cover is decimated before they move them.. The hunters that lease this property end up with not much more than a big dog park. The leave and another bunch of hunters fall over themselves in a hurry to donate thier money just to meet the same fate. I realize that every year is different. There will be good years and not so good years. The problem is that the price of leases seems to be locked into what it should be in a good year and not what the average would be in the long run. I for one don't intend to pay the price the ranchers want just to have a place to exercise my dogs.

This ain't your granddaddy's land owner anymore. Most of them are doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs. The rest inherited the land and are money grubbers. The whole attitude of the landowner has changed in this generation. It started where I grew up when every airline pilot in the metromess thought it would be stylish to get out of the city and go hunting. Get away with the boys, get drunk and have a lot of stories to tell. Pretty much ruined hunting for the local guys who could call Joe, who you have known your entire life, and ask if it would be OK for you come out and kill a deer or shoot a few birds. Hunting as the older guys on here knew growing up has been destroyed by money. To the original poster, hang in there! The stand in MA last night should be applied to the arrogant, greedy land owners as well. Enough is enough.

Before all you arrogant, greedy landowners go off on me, my grandfather had a few places. Never, ever did he charge anyone who wanted to do a little hunting or fishing on his place and he got his land paid off using it for farming and ranching. Had a hell of a lot of good friends which to him was more than any money he could have made by charging a "tresspass fee". That term just makes my blood boil. Times have changed and it damn sure ain't for the better. The folks in the city, who moved there for the white collar jobs and big money should go bowling.

OK, I'm done. Let me have it with both barrels.

I keep telling Grand daddy it aint his no more, he just wont listen.


We had a very good year for quail this year. Quail are kinda an after thought. We only go find them during the break between deer hunting.

A few of us old guys were sitting at the Dairy Queen this afternoon discussing this issue. One of the guys said if any of the whiners would let him and his wife live rent free in a house that is valued at about a million dollars, they could hunt all they want to as long as he could stay in the house rent free. I told him I would be back with answer tomorrow.

I'd trade with him in a New York minute if he would take my wife. I'd love to move to a 1,600 sq ft house, from this;

Gonna jump around here so bear with me....

Overgrazing???? Maybe.... so to help you hunt quail he should sell his cattle at terrible prices? Or should he try to get them by.... either rotating them, or sacrificing one pasture knowing he'll not be able to use that one a year or more afterwards???

I agree that the ranchers are selling hunts.... and if you paid me for an Elk hunt in Fannin County, we'd both be wrong, me for cheating you and you for???

What about the place? Is it normally quail country? What about the adjoining place? Did they have a good year or bad year? Were they overgrazed?

We do dove and duck leases.... and allow the hunters to hunt any legal game bird from sept 1 to feb 1 .... so if someone comes out here and quail hunts.... is that my fault or theirs? What if they come back year after year and never get a quail?

I understand, I have paid for deer hunting land that I thought was going to be better than it was.... I've been frustrated with the landowners before, but I tried to see it from their point of view too...

I own very little land, and lease a bunch for hunting, either for me and mine to hunt, or to sublease to our bird hunters, or to other deer hunters...


And Coolhand is right, outfitters worth a crap will tell the truth, even if its bad news... we had a bad dove year, but most of it was the extreme amounts of rain...

Vernon you did good again.

Vernon I don't think they want to hear that, they live in a prefect world where everything always goes their way. It rains when it is needed and the price of cattle is always high.

Do you know Wes Barr just a little NE of you? He does guided quail hunts.