A wise East Texas woodsman once told me to shoot first and check regulations later

There ya go...that'll work.

Phish - you're something else...me, a "company man"...some of us are UNABLE to voice our opinions on such regulations due to the fact we may lose our jobs. It would be different if I could acquire another position fairly easy, but not with so many medical problems that I have. I was one of those counties it was put in the "experimental phase" and I thought it was not to my liking. Way too many bucks on my place that NEEDED to be taken due to their genetic makeup and the antlers they produced, but I HAD to abide by the law even though I don't agree with it. Some are for it and others aren't...the cull buck situation is one of those, but not EVERY hunter in Texas knows exactly what a true cull/inferior buck is when they see one.

I'm finished, because this isn't on antler restrictions, it was the failure to observe what must every hunter in Texas must do immediately after they kill a deer.

Chris

Guys, money is hard to come by. These little nit picking things are just another way to get more money. Tell me this what is the point. If a guy follows the rules, kills a deer that is legal, fills out the tag, puts it on the deer, is doing everything correctly. Yet forget to fill out the back of the liscense, do you really think he is intending or trying to break a law. NO!!! This is just a legal way to get money. If there is no intent, then there should be no fine. Now, I know the rules, I fill out my liscense. Why, because I will not let the legal crookery of law enforcement/tax collectors get me. I know you are going to say, just know the rules and follow them and you don't have to pay this tax. That is not the point. Law enforcement should be for those who are trying to break the law. For those wanting to get away with a crime.

The liscense could be real simple, If I ain't got a tag, fine me. But if I marked the date with a pen, rather than cut out the date, give me a break. It is much easier to give a ticket to a law abiding person than to get out there and catch the real law breakers, that would be too much work. Easier to sit in a speed trap, and write out those that are not real criminals, easier to get that 118.00 for forgetting to fill out the back side, than catch someone really trying to break the law.
This is just my humble opinion, take it or leave it.

A good point Sniper270, that is the reason for the ticket because if there was a lax enforcement people would start to ignore this requirement and then ignore more of the regulations, as long as there is a chance to get a ticket a higher percentage of people tend to follow the letter of the law. If violations resulted in just just a warning ticket people will tend to "forget" what they are supposed to do.

IMO all the req's have a reason and a game warden
should not feel obligated to figure out a persons
"intent" when not complying.
As for this particular issue, how's the GW to know
the intent of "forgetting" or "not knowing" the req's
was not to take another buck in the same 1 buck cty
and then doctor the form later? Or take a 13" spread
buck, neglect the form, then when given the chance take
another 13" buck and then doctor the form to make it
look legal? Bottom line is hunting carries with it
alot of responsiblity, only part of which is knowing
and obeying the laws. If you don't take the time to
know what they are, hopefully you'll eventually get
caught and suffer the consequences.

JMO
PK

I understand the hunt it, watch it, shoot it part but what are those other things

That's what them 15 million 'candlepahr' spotlights-you know the ones-they'se the size of an oil drum-is for!

A word to the wise.

Make sure you got the good battery (your wife/cousin ain't goin' anywhere that late at night in the '89 mini van-asides the taillights don't work and she cain't afford another ticket-just put it back before she goes to work at the minimart in the morning!) on your '78 Camaro before you plug it it the cigarette lighter! It'll draw them 6 year old Interstate batteries down in a 'minnit' and you'll be waiting to flag down aunt Momma's youngest boy when he comes through on his last run to the liquor store to give you a ride home. Then you'll have to go to the store with him and he won't get there til it's about to close at midnight and he'll want to "shop" like he's gonna actually buy his daddy that bottle of Ezra Brooks he always talks about gettin' for him every Christmas!

My advice, is just don't deer hunt if you aren't going to do everything(including reading the regulations)to make it a safe and successful hunt.

Plain and simple - the rules are the rules, laws are laws, reg are regs....abide by them to their fullest extent. Do not allow someone else to tell you what you did wrong - you should already know what to do once you paid for the license to hunt. Unless you have a way of keeping up with every change in those laws, then read and understand the manual completely - not just the part you like.

It is our resposibility to know and understand all the laws, regs, rules, etc.

Thank you Big Orn for that one...it seems that some hunters actually do not care if our hunting priviledges are taken away from us and IT can happen, just like losing your driver's license. It's that simple...the Anti's are listening, watching, and waiting for their opportunity to put their actions into full gear. And we, as hunters, hopefully, ethical and legal hunters, we MUST do everything we can to NOT give them any fuel for their cause.

Remember, hunting is a priviledge, not a right.

So, what purpose does the Log serve? How does it keep us honest? It seems to me the tags were sufficient.

It is called "The Honor" system. As long as you are an ethical, honest hunter, the system works.

But as a really good friend of mine once said, "There Is A Little Larceny In All Of Us.", and I have found in retrospect that truer words were never spoken.

With some folks it is by mistake, with somefolks it is downright intentional.

Not to stir things up and get this post locked down, but I would bet that if everyone of our 4500+ members will tell the truth, the percentage of our members that HAVE DONE something that could or would have resulted in a game law violation would boggle the mind.

I would be willing to bet that it would be right at or over 90%. If anyone takes exception to those figures, tough. I have done more than my fair share of hunting and fishing, and has been illustrated in this threada lot of folks do not stay current on the laws every year.

Now the percentage of people that intentionally broke the law, I would hope would be lower, but that number might surprise folks also.

But, back to your question. If everyone is truthful and honest, the log shows GW's, how many deer that person killed and what kind. The key word is if.

It is amazing how ethical people become when they are not in the field or in the situation. Almost as amazing as how fast ethics and good judgement go out the window when actually faced with the situation.

Even tags don't keep people honest. I have known way too many hunters and landowners that would pull a tag off of their license and tell someone to use it on the next deer they killed.

In Texas, simply due to the way hunting is done here, it is nearly all on the Honor System. When you throw big Bucks and BigBuck$$$ into the picture along with greed and egos, well you know the rest.

The log is a record of which catagory antlered
deer you shot and what county. If it is filled
out correctly you're fine. If not, a game warden
can only assume it's because you're trying to avoid
or get around the restrictions (as they should).

PK

I do agree most have done something, usually
accidentally that would result in a fine.
That doesn't make for a bad person and hopefully
we learn from it. It's still a violation tho.

PK

I still don't understand the point of the log. The tags alone indicate what you've shot. Not having one on your deer prevents you from taking your deer to a commercial processor. There's nothing that prevents you from putting *anything* in the log as long as it is in agreement with which tags are missing.

I think I finally realized, what you are getting at, and the log doesn't actually do anything.

All it does is give TP&W an avenue to issue a ticket, for an individuals stupidity.

Now before everyone grabs this like a big ol yeller cat and heads downstream, just think about it for a minute and read just a little farther.

Take the following into consideration.

1. How many of us, process our own deer at home, and have never been checked by a GW????

2. If someone is trying to do something illegal, yet make it look legal, are they going to screw up by putting the wrong information on that log.

3. How many javelina tags are on a license, none, yet they are a game animal and they have set seasons and limits.

4. Why isn't there such a log for turkeys???

I would be willing to state, that it is a safe bet, that everyone that has received a ticket for anything concerning the "Hunters Log", was because they either put down the wrong information or failed to fill it out.

For those of us that have been checked by a GW, have they ever done anymore than look to see that your license was current, signed, and the number of entries on the log and the number of tags that had been removed from the license were the same. Did any of you ever have a GW fill out any kind of information sheet as to how many tags you had used and where those deer were killed at? Ever had one pull out a map and the Outdoor Annual, and match up tags to counties and check the bag limits for those counties?

Sometimes I get to concentrating on a single tree and lose sight of the forest. The hunters log is only there to provide an avenue of income to the state, due to either someones stupidity, or inability to follow directions.

I have never had a GW fill out anything stating that he/she checked such and such deer camp in whatever county, and listed the # of hunters in the camp and the number of deer recorded on their individual license and where those deer came from. All they were worried about is whether anything had been killed that weekend, who it was killed by, if everyone had their license and it was signed, if there was an entry in the log for every tag that was gone from the license, and if everyone had some form of I.D., and the last one has not always been asked. I left out they check everyone that looks young enough for their Hunter Ed Cert.

EXACTLY CHC! You could shoot 10 bucks in 1 county -- send two or three to be processed with the proper tags on, and write down on the log that you shot two or three (to match the missing tags) and a GW would have no way of telling that you were lying about the remaining 7 or 8! There's nothing that the log can be compared against but the missing tags.

BTW, don't get me wrong. I follow laws even when they don't make sense to me. I was just trying to understand the reasoning behind the log.

Some times us old farts have to beat our heads against a stump for a long time to get out of a mind set. We were all telling you that it keeps an honest person honest, which in most cases it probably does, sort of like a padlock on a gate.

But if you stop sometimes and back up a little and look at the situation from what you have actually observed in the field, you see things from a different angle.

Like any other legal system, persons wanting too, can work most or all of TP&W's regulations to their advantage as long as they are not sloppy with it.

I am not in any way trying to tell anyone that they should start ignoring the regulations that are in place. It is just if you really stop and look at it, a lot of TP&W's regulations are so lax, it is unbelievable. It is interesting, since it seems that so many folks do not stay current on existing game and fish laws, that there are not a whole lot more tickets given out than there are.

Yes, many of the "laws" are simply revenue generating. These are going to increase as revenue gets even more tight. You can argue all you want, but most of these laws only keep the honest, honest, as someone else said. But what they really do is to get a little extra income for the honest who are not as through as they should be. To me this is wrong. I personally don't think laws should be passed just so monies/revenue can be raised. Not in situations like we are discussing.

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If a guy follows the rules, kills a deer that is legal, fills out the tag, puts it on the deer, is doing everything correctly. Yet forget to fill out the back of the liscense

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This is pretty easy.
1. He didn't follow the rules.
2. He didn't do every thing correctly.

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If there is no intent, then there should be no fine.

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First off there is no way of determining intent.

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I will not let the legal crookery of law enforcement/tax collectors get me.

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That statement speaks volumes. Your disdain for legal authority is showing.

I just paid my fine in hamilton and it was 168.00