I'm not hunting this weekend. We cancelled!! I think I took the blame. It doesn't really matter. It's no longer fun for me to hunt off a vehicle in 20 degree mornings.

I was to be the guest of an acquaintance, on his company lease in south Texas. He needed dogs. I was overjoyed to get the invite.

It's going to be a slow weekend for me so let's enter into a discussion on guest on quail leases.

Some guest privileges are open enough that two people can join together. I don't hunt alone, and prefer to hunt on weekdays. It's tough to find friends who hunt on weekdays. I fell in with Chuck Duran, three years after I retired. We've hunted together since then. We both joined on our first lease. It was the best lease I've ever had. We invited a friend. He joined and sold the lease out from under us. Two years ago we got this great offer in Archer county. We could openly join together, but take no more than 15 birds each day between us. We fell for it. We went twice and killed one bird. This is about the only bird dog picture I got from there;



I got invited to one of the Briscoe pastures last year in the Fowlerton area. Here are some pictures;



We drove upon both coveys;




They had lots of birds, but you couldn't get your vehicle off the roads. I think we found around 18 coveys, and saw every one of them before we let the dogs out. It was not my cup of tea. I would not have shot this bird for all the money in the world. It was running right to my Gator.




The Spade allows guest without guns. I drove up there a few years ago, to hunt with my friend Ron. I did not take a gun. Here you go;






I have a few more comments, but my fingers are tired. What are your comments, and observations?

Do you still hunt with Chuck? I know him from the GSP club here in Houston. Very nice man!

Until this past year, I've never considered getting on a quail lease. I'd like to now that I have a dog, however, I haven't heard many encouraging things (numbers wise and future prospects) about quail leases here in Texas.

What is the farthest you'd consider traveling for a lease?

My experience is that most leases allow a guest, some have limits on how many times you can bring a guest or for how many days. I believe the guest is an important part of the experience. You can put more hunters on a lease without guest and therefore reduce the cost. I do not like situations where member and guest do not hunt together. I have had to get rid of some members because their guest did not fit in.

I think guests should be allowed but with limitations. Like, the same guest can only come a maximum of 3 times per season. And, of course immediate family (wife and dependents) can come anytime. I've never had a quail lease but now that I have a new GSP I would like to get one next season. These are just a few suggestions that I feel would be acceptable to most involved.

We put together a rule in our group that you bring a guest occasionally, but the guest cannot bring dogs. The birds on our leased ground are for our dogs basically.

Very interesting rule. First impression is I like it. As a lease manager I find guest rules are the hardest thing to get right. The next hardest is merging the interest of the retired hunter with the weekend hunter and the occasional hunter.

I still hunt with Chuck.

The lease in Archer county was sold in order for two people to reduce the cost. We paid $4,500, which amounted to $2,250 for my one bird, but I guess the total cost for that bird was still $4,500.

That lease was 370 miles. Our Aspermont lease was 410 miles. That's close to my limit. I'm retired, and can spend an extra day on the road, but working people have to take off Friday to travel that far. The camphouse make a lot of difference.

I'm getting more dog work at home on my pen raised birds than most people are getting on their leases this year, but I still like to hunt different pastures.

This is a challenging and sometimes difficult topic for lease managers and definitley hunters. Hunting alone on a lease can be somewhat dangerous especially for older guys, no offense!!! Weather concerns are at the top of the list. Vehicle issues are an ongoing battle due to the terrain. Getting turned around and lost on a ranch you do not quite know is always a possibility. As everyone on the forum will agree, accidents do happen.

Let's face it, guests on a lease will always be and make much sense. The burden of responsibility lies totally on the leasee and he should be held accountable for the actions of the guest at all times. A simple, but most times difficult, conversation with your hunting guest for the next few days on your lease is a must. Topics of importance should be:

Hunting Ethics - Includes respect for the outdoors
Livestock
Safety
Gates
Cleanliness

Always thinking ahead will minimize, if not eliminate, conversations after the fact when at that time it is just too late. Leases must allow guests and the rules must be dicussed and agreed upon up front and followed. There is simply no other way around.

All of us have most likely been involved at one time or another or at least heard of an issue with a guest that screwed up the lease they had for years. And it was bad [censored] lease and they wish they had been proactive.

Billy

I do not like it for people to hunt by themselves, to many bad thinks can happen. I broke a leg real bad once by just having a rock roll. If I had been alone I would have been in deep do do.

sounds like a fair rule to me. As a first time bird dog owner, I'm finding out that I get more enjoyment in working my dog than in shootingthe birds anyway. Don't get me wrong, I still like to shoot but I wouldn't mind getting on a lease where I can bring my dogs and a guest to shoot. Spreads the fun around and if done properly, should not offend the others on the lease IMO.

Deer and quail are usually leased seperate, and at different times of the season, but I got on a really good quail pasture, near Benavides, with some deer hunters one time. It was 4,000 acres with a camphouse. I was the only one on the lease with bird dogs. The total price was $16,000. There were 8 members who paid $2,000 each. I paid $1,000 and we used that money for the camphouse. I think everyone on the lease bird hunted with me a few times, and I had other guest. My friend Ron came down a couple of times. That was back when we still killed birds. I only shoot a few pointed birds anymore, and never shoot doubles.

I was on a lease at Paint Rock, with Chuck Duran, and Bob Murray. Bob invited a guest on our opening day. We agreed not to shoot doubles. He shot a double and we lost both birds. There's not much you can say and keep the harmony.

About wary of friends and letting them have use. After few incidences and plain shixxy doins over 40 years,Including having places leased out from under me at graphord,caddo and throckmorton,Brought friends they bragged on quality to their professionals/ zip out priced next year,Dumb incidences included shooting cow over dog stomping,pistol practicing in hay stack(ground into feed),slugs in trough,deer shooting after season, pot shooting an later slaughter of bedded birds in snow in 72 on keechi creek banks, Current place few bunches flush an work singles take a single,move on,, Latest Son brought out a young guy to lazy to walk ,and was asked to leave mule an dogs on truck, as snows to rough on birds to bust up from drainages an plum thickets an go get a buck instead,and he says "great day to pot shoot abunch" , bs not here bye.

Yes sir we have seen it happen.

This thread has taken an interesting turn but it's sure enough the man with the lease's job to control his guests. I've stopped hunts cold twice in my life, once when a guy shot into a running covy 20 ft in front of him, and once when a Doctor guest of my dad's shot my dog at 40 ft, ten minutes after getting directions about low shots. Some folks don't deserve to hunt good places or over good dogs. You can't catch and release quail(I've had some dogs try) but you can take care of the resource. And you can't fix stupid.

Let's get back on point.
What do you believe the quest policy should be on a quail lease?

Hypothetical Question
10,000 acres prime quail country all huntable and atv friendly.
Lease cost 30,000
How many hunters?
Guest Rules
Other Rules


Have fun.

Here's how I would try to do it:
6 hunters.
$5,000 per hunter.
2 guests max.
No more than 1 bird per covey per person.
Excluding immediate family, no guest more than 3 times to lease.
No more than 8 dogs per paying hunter in camp per trip.
Depending on the bird population, hunting may be suspended ealier than TPWD end of season to save brood stock for the following year.

Does this sound reasonable?

Ten hunters (thinking not all will ever be there at one time)
1 guest/trip after opening weekend
No drugs or booze in the field
I get to hunt the best areas when I'm there

Interested in the eight dog limit?? How would bringing 9 or 7 be different? by the way I have 3 so don't really have a dog in that fight.

I hunt with some guys that their truck is setup to carry 8 dogs. They bring 16 dogs to camp. It's like an outfitter showing up. The good side of this is they are not interested in meat hunting, just getting plenty of wild bird work for their dogs.

Great comments so far

In this economy, and bird population on the decline state wide, I strongly caution the high priced lease fees of $4,000.00 -$5,000.00 and above. They are only going to attract the kind of hunters we have been identifying on this very discussion. If these prices become the market standard, which they almost did as recently as 2007, this will not be good for bird hunting in this area.

I firmly believe if lease managers/ranchers/owners screen their applicants properly and actually meet and interview guys instead of sending them to the property and rushing to sign them on the lease we would see some consistency in our lease members and set the lease would be set up for success.

If I were a ranch owner I would rather have less money in my pocket and trustworthy and ethical hunters with some long term commitments than more $$$ and the problems that go with these $$$.

It is a business and well thought out strategic business decisions need to be made.

The toughest things I have had to manage over the years are trying to keep the membership closely aligned in how many times a year they hunt, how many dogs they have, will they send out an email to the group to try and get another person to go with them so the pastures dont get beat up with a paying member plus a guest (solo hunting I call it), are they willing to agree to our guests cant bring dogs and a section or smaller pasture has to have 3 days of rest before the next hunt, etc. A few of our members are now retired, which in a good year can cause problems because of all of the middle of the week trips which might make a small pasture off limits (hasnt been a problem the past three years as bad as its been). Everyone sends an email to a Yahoo Group email that copies everyone after a hunt to report where they hunted, how many coveys, how many killed. A fair amount of this is interviewing guys beforehand. The most any guy in group has is three dogs. I have turned down a lot of 6 and 8 dog guys because existing guys would immediately think that Charlie and his crew of vacuum cleaners is raping the place, just because they only have one or two dogs primarily. We have an internal 2 page rules word doc that gets sent to any new member, and it tells them if they jump a fence, get a game warden ticket, etc -- they are gone and I will send them a prorated check back. Its too hard to find good ground to have someone get you kicked off. Just some of my thoughts

I have seen the cost of leasing go from 50 cents an acre to $4 per acre and in south texas it is 8 to 10 per acre.

I also like to go eye ball to eye ball with prospective hunters. However, logistics can make that impossible.

Many times have I set up to show a place and have 3 hunters lined up to come on a Saturday and none or 1 show up.

Dances is eliminating a problem by not allowing quest with dogs but it appears that he is working with a fairly consistent group very little change over in members.

I believe you need at least 1200 acres per member if you allow one guest and 1000 acres if you do not allow any guest. Obviously the amount of time a member hunts and the type of hunter he is can really impact those figures.

Should the hunter who hunts more be charged more or not be asked back?

My main lease has a rule that you cannot hunt a pasture the second time until you have hunted all the rest of the pastures.

On the number of dogs issue my records show that the people with a lot of dogs do not kill more birds per hour then the hunters with 2 or 3 dogs.

Should the lease be priced by the number of dogs?

The hunters with more dogs don't neccesarily kill more birds,
they just have the resources to find more birds. The key here is fresh dogs. Especially hunting South where even in Jan. and Feb. it can be 80+ degrees.

Sample Rules

 Game Laws- All hunters and guests shall observe and comply with all Federal, State, Local and ranch games laws and rules.

 Sportsmanship- All hunters and guests shall conduct themselves in a sportsman like manner. No birds shall be shot on the ground or near deer feeders.

 Gates- Leave all gates as you find them. ( If a gate is closed, be sure it is securely fastened after you pass through) Do not drive over electric fences. Please report any broken fences or any unusual situations to the ranch office Vehicles- Any vehicles with catalytic converters are not to be taken off of established ranch roads and shall be parked only in designated parking areas.

 Fire- Range fire is a constant threat. No fires of any kind, including campfires are allowed. Campfire in designated area ok.

 Pets- No pets are allowed.

 Check-in - All hunters and guests must sign-in at the office and execute a waiver of liability. All game taken should be recorded in the sign-in book. Please sign-out when you are leaving the ranch premises.

 Alcohol- the use of alcohol during hunting hours is discouraged. Anyone found to be intoxicated or under the influence of illegal drugs will be required to leave the ranch premises immediately.

 Firearms- all firearms shall be kept unloaded (preferably cased) anytime you are not in your assigned hunting area. It is also recommended that you wear blaze orange while in the field.

 Hunting area- Hunt only in your assigned area. Please travel directly to and from your assigned area in a manner that will not disturb other hunters. Do not drive in areas that are not in your assigned area except as is necessary to reach your area.

 Firewood, plants, artifacts- These items are not to be removed from the ranch without permission.

 Litter and Trash- Hunters and guests will keep the ranch free of litter and trash (this includes empty shell hulls).

 Guests- All guests must be accompanied by a Lessee and must execute a Waiver of Liability prior to going to the field. Limit one guest per Lessee per trip. All minor children must be accompanied by an adult.

 Livestock- Do not hunt or fire guns at or in areas where livestock are grazing, watering, or bedding down. Every effort should be made not to frighten or disturb livestock.

 Other game animals- No animals or birds other than Mourning Doves and Bob White Quail shall be harvested.

 Feeding- There shall be no feeders or hunting on baited ground. Hunting doves on baited ground is expressly prohibited by Federal law.

 Quail Data-Please complete a hunting report for each hunt on the ranch. A separate report shall be made for each morning hunt and each evening hunt. The report shall be left at the ranch office or in the check-out box.

 Pastures-It is important that we equalize the hunting pressure on the pastures. Hunters shall not hunt a pasture more than two times until they have hunted in every other available pasture.